acm solve sites

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do the problem solving sites should contain solutions of problems?

yes
21
18%
not at all
37
32%
only for some seleted model problems
52
46%
no comments
4
4%
 
Total votes: 114

asarefin
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Post by asarefin » Fri Jan 24, 2003 5:34 pm

This post is deleted by me-

Ahmed Shamsul Arefin
Last edited by asarefin on Sun Jun 22, 2003 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
ACM SOLVER

Miguel Angel
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My opinion

Post by Miguel Angel » Sat Jan 25, 2003 6:53 am

My vote was NO, my reassons:

* Well, like someone said it's an ability contest, so I think some resources must be keept, for example maybe i won't share my solution about very hard problems like "Bigger Square Please..", because it's not intended to be solvable by all the authors in the site, isn't it?

* Another person said it's just for "POOR SOURCE" programmers. In this case my opinion is that you can make any problem if you have the ability to do it. At high school i always used my own algorithms, made by myself with my own knowledge and intelligence, i didn't know about certain technics or other special problem algorithms. I was good at those contests. So, SOURCE it's not a matter of frontier if you want to go on about your own in IOI, ACM contests.

* I have shared some ALGO (note ALGO != CODE) with some other authors, and i'll continue doing it, and maybe if the ALGO is complicated then send the CODE. But as i saw all the authors which i compared solutions, they write its own solution by himselfs, then no cheating is related. How will you feel if someone take your CODE without your authorization?, It's your work!!, i feel bad, at least you may think your work it's not valuable.

* Well, at least in my country.. If you have money to buy a computer, and stayed connected to the internet, i cannot believe you wouldn't have the enough money to buy a VERY VERY good book with sources. Even more, you maybe are connected from, i don't know a CYBER-COFFE (LOL i don't know which term can be applied well for other countries), there exist a lot of sites with good algo's, ideas and hints.

* And as everything in the life, there will be honest people and not at all honest people, anyone can bring its live as want with taking responsabilities. So we may accept every kind of people, and every opinion, so you may agree with me or not, but it's my comment :)

Greetings to all.
:D Miguel & Marina :D

WhiteShadow
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My 2 cents

Post by WhiteShadow » Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:43 pm

Well, IMHO, like most of the people that posted here, solutions should not be posted (except for maybe a couple selected problems).

We learn a lot more if we do things by ourselves... We should focus on learning how to fish, like Rui said. Posting solutions will only make some people try the opposite, and they will never be able to fish alone.

What should be encouraged is to give hints/tips on how to solve problems, on algorithms and data structures, but that is much more difficult (if you don't believe it, try it for yourself) It's a lot more easier to just post a solution.

And last, but not the least, yes, "there is no money to be gained and no lives to be saved", but please try to see the effort some people make on doing problems in ACM, that is much more important than having money in the question. I know that the most important is to know that we were honest, that we have integrity, that we really made the problems, but after all there IS a classification, and if you work hard to achieve something, would you like to see someone take that from you, and by doing nothing? Seeing people doing that IS what takes the fun...

Well, but the most important thing is seeing so many people that, like me, really enjoy solving problems ! :D
"Deep in the human unconscious is a pervasive need for a logical universe that makes sense. But the real universe is always one step beyond logic."

shahriar_manzoor
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Why is it always like this?

Post by shahriar_manzoor » Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:07 pm

When we solve problems we generally try to solve it in the easiest way at first. When the solution is given many will try to copy from the solution. When I first had the concept of dynamic programming I tried to understand all the common dynamic programming problems and thought it would help me but later realised that if I had tried to solve the common problems myself it would have been better. I still often find my weaknesses in solving hard dynamic programming problems and I enjoy most setting a problem which can be solved only with dynamic programming approach. I can set geometric/math problems easily as I used to solve all maths myself.

My point on writing the paragraph above is that when we try to solve a problem only with our own merit we learn the best technique.

I remember a similar thread with even harsh words a year back where two people of my country (Bangladesh) were involved. They were calling each other copier and so on. And now I find this such a thread alive again where a site called acmsolver is related ... Again a site set up by a or some Bangladeshi. I don't know why it always have to be this way when I and some other people are trying our level best to improve her (Bangladesh) image. I have requested the setter of such sites to remove source codes in such huge amount but they have not listened.

I cannot always say that what I do is right. But since not many people are critisizing me I hope I am not that wrong but since so many threads are critisizing you(Those who set up such solve sites) you should ask yourselves what you r doing? is it right or wrong.

I think the Waterloo Programming Contest site has more than enough different types of problems with input output for anyone to learn and see solutions. No other site with solutions is required. Actually, the codes of Waterloo Site are mostly class solutions, I always learn new techniques watching them. But not everyone can write such solutions and thus the solutions don't have much to teach.

asarefin
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Re: Why is it always like this?

Post by asarefin » Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:53 pm

shahriar_manzoor wrote:When we solve problems we generally try to solve it in the easiest way at first. When the solution is given many will try to copy from the solution. When I first had the concept of dynamic programming I tried to understand all the common dynamic programming problems and thought it would help me but later realised that if I had tried to solve the common problems myself it would have been better. I still often find my weaknesses in solving hard dynamic programming problems and I enjoy most setting a problem which can be solved only with dynamic programming approach. I can set geometric/math problems easily as I used to solve all maths myself.

My point on writing the paragraph above is that when we try to solve a problem only with our own merit we learn the best technique.

I remember a similar thread with even harsh words a year back where two people of my country (Bangladesh) were involved. They were calling each other copier and so on. And now I find this such a thread alive again where a site called acmsolver is related ... Again a site set up by a or some Bangladeshi. I don't know why it always have to be this way when I and some other people are trying our level best to improve her (Bangladesh) image. I have requested the setter of such sites to remove source codes in such huge amount but they have not listened.

I cannot always say that what I do is right. But since not many people are critisizing me I hope I am not that wrong but since so many threads are critisizing you(Those who set up such solve sites) you should ask yourselves what you r doing? is it right or wrong.

I think the Waterloo Programming Contest site has more than enough different types of problems with input output for anyone to learn and see solutions. No other site with solutions is required. Actually, the codes of Waterloo Site are mostly class solutions, I always learn new techniques watching them. But not everyone can write such solutions and thus the solutions don't have much to teach.
All Solutions have removed from acmsolver!

Regards-
AHMED SHAMSUL AREFIN
ACM SOLVER

Shahid
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Post by Shahid » Sun Feb 02, 2003 7:21 pm

only couragious man can take bold steps.....

So Mr. Arefin, thanks to u.........


and i think u will get help and suggestion to maintain and develop the acm solver problem and judge site, not only from the problem solvers of Bangladesh, but also from the problem solvers around the world.


Best of luck ....

- Shahid

shahriar_manzoor
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Thanks!!!

Post by shahriar_manzoor » Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:21 pm

Better late than never - thanks!
Wish you all the best with your site :-)

Subeen
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Post by Subeen » Tue Feb 04, 2003 9:24 am

finally the truth wins :lol:

suman
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About other solve sites

Post by suman » Sun Feb 09, 2003 1:25 pm

Hi,
First of all I like to say that I voted for `no source code'. Personally I don't like copying sources. But in the previous board I had a bad experience about this topic.
As most of the person is against the source code publishing why not stop some other doing so. As one of such web site has stopped we should stop others. I know some of the sites...

http://www.karrels.org/Ed/ACM/prob_index.html
http://www.comp.nus.edu.sg/~stevenha/pr ... acmoj.html
http://www.dcc.ufmg.br/~reuber/solutions/index.html
http://www.ntu.edu.sg/home/awkng

As I copy these site addresses without checking right now I may have pasted some irrelevent sitename. Sorry if it is so.

So we should raise opinion for stopping these sites distributing ACM OJ sources. Other may also post such site address.

- Suman

Sajid
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hmmmm...

Post by Sajid » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:45 am

Dominik Michniewski wrote:Another problem is thing, which I call "dirty accounts" ....

Some people (maybe I don't have right ...) creates more than one account - one for submitting all solutions for test only, second for submitting only good solutions .... It's not fair to me ....

On other sites, like acm.timus.ru, such practice could cause, that such user is pernamently removed from site ....
Yess, you are right 100%. i m agree with u. I totaly dont like this kind of thing...

but, we have to give warning first to the user who pratices so. and after few practice again,,, then permanently remove him/her.
Sajid Online: www.sajidonline.com

Sajid
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hmmmm...

Post by Sajid » Fri Feb 21, 2003 10:49 am

Dominik Michniewski wrote:Another problem is thing, which I call "dirty accounts" ....

Some people (maybe I don't have right ...) creates more than one account - one for submitting all solutions for test only, second for submitting only good solutions .... It's not fair to me ....

On other sites, like acm.timus.ru, such practice could cause, that such user is pernamently removed from site ....
Yess, you are right 100%. i m agree with u. I totaly dont like this kind of thing...

but, we have to give warning first to the user who pratices so. and after few practice again,,, then permanently remove him/her.
Sajid Online: www.sajidonline.com

Jalal
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Post by Jalal » Fri Apr 11, 2003 7:41 am

Now acm become some thing different 8)
One of the faculty of North South University
has published a book on Data structure. I saw that. not a bad one.
But he made the book 2 part, in the 1st part he disscussed about the
Data structure and in the other part he give solve of 100 acm problem.
The book include a CD which contain all of the sollution of that 100
problem too. One of the acm solver (SFS From NSU) gave those code on
the book. I dont know why they do that.If they want to teach the student
they should made some problem by them selves and open the code for that. But they publish the whole acm
solve code in there. So anybody can write and submit those code to
get accepted. THis must be bad for the people who love to solve and
think about these problems......................... :oops:
Last edited by Jalal on Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sajid
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Post by Sajid » Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:12 pm

Jalal Bhaiya,

yes, i totally agree with u.

if they want to teach the student, they should prepare problems of thier own. They shouldn't publish the solves the ACM problems.

In my University, (American International University - Bangladesh "AIUB"), Kamruzzaman Sir takes the class of special programmers class. In that class, Kamruzzaman Sir prepares the problems which r different from ACM sites.

I think, every institution should follow this...
Sajid Online: www.sajidonline.com

shahriar_manzoor
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Disagree

Post by shahriar_manzoor » Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:35 am

I think the use the problems of ACM site in a book is not bad (as long as the writer acknowledge and take permission of the authors) but putting solutions of many of them is not a good idea. One can give pseodo code of some algorithms or C/C++ source code of common algorithm techniques etc. But again source codes are largely available in the internet, so if someone puts them in a book, I don't think it is that harmful for the society. Many big programming contests publish their solutions after contest. But a book itself is a commercial product, one cannot use others' problems without their permission in a commercial product.

When one wants to increase the volume of one's book with other people's code and pirated problems that illustrates some other meanings which I don't want to discuss here.

haaaz
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Post by haaaz » Sat Apr 19, 2003 4:37 pm

I think solutions for most problems should not be provided, it is reasonable to have the number of model soultions limited to 1-20.

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