acm solve sites

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do the problem solving sites should contain solutions of problems?

yes
21
18%
not at all
37
32%
only for some seleted model problems
52
46%
no comments
4
4%
 
Total votes: 114

Shahid
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acm solve sites

Post by Shahid »

with the ever incresing number of programming contest(both in internet and in the real field) the number of prgramming contest related sites also increases. some of these sites related to just programming contests i.e., contains problem sets and organizes online programming contests. and some sites contains hints to solve problems and some useful docs on problem solving, algorithm etc. etc. over this some sites also contains solutions to problems(specially the problems of the acm.uva.es site).example - the acmsolver site.

now a question comes, should any site contain solution to problems...supporters may say, its may be used as teaching tool....or if someone want to misuse it then he in reality doesn't gain anything.......

in contrary it can be said that, such site is against the moral of problem solving........it doesn't teach anything, moreover it derail some problem solver from the normal hard track of becoming a great problem solver.
so what do u think about this......?
plz take part in the poll and post ur comments.

Adrian Kuegel
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Post by Adrian Kuegel »

I think that solutions to problems should not be accessible, at least not for many problems. If there are solutions to many problems, it would be easy for someone to send them all to online judge and appear on front page of the ranklist. Every person who don't cheat and work for months/years to reach it will feel annoyed.

Dominik Michniewski
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Post by Dominik Michniewski »

I agree with you Adrian ...
If we have typical training site, like USACO, we could see a judge solutions after solving problem ... But Valladolid is more specific - it's page for people, who want to solve problems for own satisfaction .... So I think, that about solutions we should discuss on board ....only ;-)

Regards
Dominik

Caesum
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Post by Caesum »

If you want a site with solutions then there is no point in having an online judge. Noone would write programs and submit them.

Fresh
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...

Post by Fresh »

Adrian Kuegel wrote:I think that solutions to problems should not be accessible, at least not for many problems. If there are solutions to many problems, it would be easy for someone to send them all to online judge and appear on front page of the ranklist. Every person who don't cheat and work for months/years to reach it will feel annoyed.
Agree

-novice :wink:

Moni
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Re: ...

Post by Moni »

Fresh wrote:
Adrian Kuegel wrote:I think that solutions to problems should not be accessible, at least not for many problems. If there are solutions to many problems, it would be easy for someone to send them all to online judge and appear on front page of the ranklist. Every person who don't cheat and work for months/years to reach it will feel annoyed.
Agree

-novice :wink:
Me too.............
ImageWe are all in a circular way, no advances, only moving and moving!

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yahoo
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Post by yahoo »

Adrian is 100% correct. There should be no site giving solution to too many problems. Somebody may give 5-10 solutions as example but giving 300 solution in one web sites like acmsolver is not acceptable. :-?

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Post by asarefin »

yahoo wrote:Adrian is 100% correct. There should be no site giving solution to too many problems. Somebody may give 5-10 solutions as example but giving 300 solution in one web sites like acmsolver is not acceptable. :-?
Last edited by asarefin on Thu Jan 09, 2003 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ACM SOLVER

asarefin
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Post by asarefin »

yahoo wrote:Adrian is 100% correct. There should be no site giving solution to too many problems. Somebody may give 5-10 solutions as example but giving 300 solution in one web sites like acmsolver is not acceptable. :-?
Reply from ACM Solver :

ACMsolver is an ever increasing group of people, who like to solve, analyze and even create problems similar to ACM/ICPC programming Contest. Another important thing is, they also try to make the programming contest/ problem solving more popular for ever. They share their solved problems solutions because there are many poor programmers around the world who do not get enough opportunity to learn how the problems should be solved! (Teaching problem, insufficient resources and books, lack of proper guidance and many more things which can not be stated in one line!). So, our ACMsolver Team comes forward to help only these type of poor programmers! ACMsolver contains only the solutions to UVA Judge. Because, we think this is the most popular Judge around the world and many celebrity programmers like this judge. UVA Judge's problems are very interesting, standard and easier enough to learn by solutions (If you do not believe, compare the problems with the ACM/ICPC World Final Problems!!). And above all people get more interest on solving problems of this site. So, we can easily draw their attention using solutions to (acm.uva.es) and help them to learn more easily! We think, this site will help not only the Novice programmer but also the Expert in REAL TIME CONTEST ( Like ACM/ICPC Regionals or World Finals), Because They can use these sources as pre-defined functions in solving different types of problems in real time! Surely, we discourage, to use these solutions to upgrade your rank on UVA judge. Infact, your false rank will not give you anything at all. But your knowledge on solving and analyzing different types of problems may give you the power of solving more! Finally you can also solve the problems on our own Archive (Problem Set). Our Problems are also much interesting and standard enough to increase your skills. Thank you!

/**************************************************
AHMED SHAMSUL AREFIN
Team Co-ordinator,ACM Solver;
Administrator & Webmaster
ACM Solver Offline Judge
Web http://www.acmsolver.tk
***************************************************/
ACM SOLVER

Shahid
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Post by Shahid »

asarefin wrote: Reply from ACM Solver :

They share their solved problems solutions because there are many poor programmers around the world who do not get enough opportunity to learn how the problems should be solved! (Teaching problem, insufficient resources and books, lack of proper guidance and many more things which can not be stated in one line!). So, our ACMsolver Team comes forward to help only these type of poor programmers!


As Arefin said, the acm solver site then aims mainly to the poor programmers................who don't have good resources. I thnik then there sholud be a banner on the site that would say: "targetting mainly to poor (by resource) programmers." Secondly programming contest is one type of extra-curricular activity. So i think only the programmers who are capable of it, try to do contests or solves problems. Most of the so called 'poor' programmers may not care about programming contests or problem solving.

UVA Judge's problems are very interesting, standard and easier enough to learn by solutions (If you do not believe, compare the problems with the ACM/ICPC World Final Problems!!).


i don't understand the meaning of "easier enough to learn by solutions" ?? yes, everything is easier enough to learn by solutions but that would not effective enough.
And above all people get more interest on solving problems of this site. So, we can easily draw their attention using solutions to (acm.uva.es) and help them to learn more easily!

i think already, all most all the problem solvers of the world somewhat (at least for one time) take a look on the UVA site......... ...... so publisizing the UVA site is not so important....

We think, this site will help not only the Novice programmer but also the Expert in REAL TIME CONTEST ( Like ACM/ICPC Regionals or World Finals), Because They can use these sources as pre-defined functions in solving different types of problems in real time!

Probably every successful contestant and problem solvers , equipped with their own set of pre defined routines (or functions).........if someone can't make such set of his own, then how could he use that effectively to solve a problem..!!!!



so Arefin, make a problem site rather making a solve site........... it will be good to see a complete problem site of Bangladesh with judging capability.

- Shahid

ec3_limz
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Post by ec3_limz »

Hi,

Actually, there are many websites that showcase their respective authors' ACM solutions.

I personally feel that it is all right to create such a website. Such a website would then be meant for educational purposes.

Cheaters who steal others' solutions and submit them to the online judge without fully understanding the solutions will in fact lose out; they don't get practice, and their programming skills will not improve. Just getting a whole list of solved problems does not show how good the author is at solving problems; his ability depends on his integrity too.

Just my two cents worth :lol:

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Post by Dominik Michniewski »

Another problem is thing, which I call "dirty accounts" ....

Some people (maybe I don't have right ...) creates more than one account - one for submitting all solutions for test only, second for submitting only good solutions .... It's not fair to me ....

On other sites, like acm.timus.ru, such practice could cause, that such user is pernamently removed from site ....

Could anyone tell me yours opinion to this subject ?

Regards
Dominik Michniewski

little joey
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Post by little joey »

I just submitted a 'no comment' vote, because I really don't care if people publish their solutions or not. For one thing, you can't stop anyone from doing it. I'd like to remark the following:

1. This is primarily a 'fun site'. People come here because they are addicted to programming and like to test their skills with some real problems. They can get a fair judgement and see how well their solution compares to other's. Of course the competition adds an extra thrill, but there is no money to be gained and no lives to be saved. There will always be people who try to circumvent the rules for their personal gain, but in this case I would say, let them. It's your personal choice to play fair or not, and the only thing that is at stake is your own satisfaction.

2. Only the 'easier' problems will get published. People who are able enough to solve the harder problems are the people you find in the higher parts of the rankings and they have put in a lot of effort solving hundreds of problems. They will not be inclined to give them away easily. Copying and submitting say 100 problems from a solutions site is very boring and will not get you anywhere in the rankings anyway. Besides there is enough to be found on the boards already.

3. There can be an educational aspect to studying another one's code. Lot's of people are just starting to take programming beyond the 'Hello world!' stage and know nothing about the hundreds of nifty algorithms with obscure names like 'Dijkstra', 'Floyd-Warshall' and 'red-black trees'. Looking at the implementation of an algorithm to solve a problem that is easy to grasp is far more efficient then ploughing through tons of mathematics in a standard text book.

RuiFerreira
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why???

Post by RuiFerreira »

The question is...
If every one agrees, why this kind of sites exist? :-?
Please don't have a site like those... :evil:

don't give fish, but teach how to fish!!!

i'm doing a kind of a "how to" in my homepage...!!
it's not ready yet... the first theame is:
How to optimize input / output

http://www.fe.up.pt/~ei01081/
Please visit my webpage!! I've got a lot of UVA statistics scripts
http://www.fe.up.pt/~ei01081/scripts/

Dominik Michniewski
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Post by Dominik Michniewski »

I agree with Rui ....
I think, that better way is put on this site hints, which may help solve some problems, not ready to send answers :) And if someone put with hints of algorithm (like in this board) some special I/O cases - it's very good ... When people can cheat - they cheat :(

Maybe best solution could be preparing in this site pages with explanation of some common (and not common) algorithms for novice and advance ?

Best regards
Dominik

PS. I use this board to solve my problems with OJ problems :) I'm very intresting with discussion about solution, exchanging input output saples, but I'm not happy, when I must to post my solution (when I got hints and I got ACC, I cut it) ... But creating database with solutions of all problems - this is, for me, very bad idea

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